Welcome back to A Read of Ice and Fire! Please join me as I read and react, for the very first time, to George R.R. Martin’s epic fantasy series A Song of Ice and Fire.
Today’s entry is Part 45 of A Storm of Swords, in which we cover Chapter 71 (“Daenerys”).
Previous entries are located in the Index. The only spoilers in the post itself will be for the actual chapters covered and for the chapters previous to them. As for the comments, please note that the Powers That Be have provided you a lovely spoiler thread here on Tor.com. Any spoileriffic discussion should go there, where I won’t see it. Non-spoiler comments go below, in the comments to the post itself.
And now, the post!
Chapter 71: Daenerys
What Happens
Missandei serves Dany wine on the terrace atop Meereen’s Great Pyramid while Dany reflects on the nature of gods. She promises Missandei that she will return her to her native island of Naath someday, but Missandei replies that she is content to stay with Dany. She dresses with her maids’ help, and wonders if she looks like a conqueror yet; she doesn’t feel like one, even though she had taken Meereen in less than a day. She thinks back to the brief but bloody battle. She thinks on how she’d had the former leaders of the city crucified after for their crimes, but now that her anger has died down she wonders if she did the right thing.
In the throne room, she looks upon her followers and wonders which one of them will betray her next. She thinks that there are two men in the world she can trust, and the three of them will be like Aegon and his sisters if she can find them. She is pleased that the night went peacefully, thanks to the harsh penalties she had decreed for pillage and rapine. She orders that the corpses of those she executed be returned to their families in a respectful manner.
An envoy from Astapor named Ghael arrives, and brings her greetings from “King Cleon of Astapor, Cleon the Great”. Dany says she left a council in charge of Astapor, not a king, and Ghael claims that the council was plotting to restore the Great Masters, and Cleon exposed and then executed them. Missandei explains sotto voce that Cleon was a butcher in Grazdan’s kitchen, and Dany reflects bitterly that she has given Astapor “a butcher king”. Ghael says Cleon proposes an alliance with her against the Yunkai’i, who he claims are also plotting against her, and marriage to seal it. Dany says she will consider it, and dismisses Ghael. She reflects that all her victories have “turned to dross”, and wonders what to do if the news of Astapor inspires the newly freed slaves in Meereen to abandon the city and go with her when she leaves, and how she would feed them all if they did.
Next comes a Qartheen slaver ship captain, who weeps for the atrocities he says the Cleaver King is wreaking in Astapor, including the seizing of every highborn boy to make into new Unsullied. Dany thinks it will be the same in Meereen once she leaves, but tells herself there’s nothing she can do about it. Dany tells the captain she has no slaves to sell him, but Daario tells her, to her shock, that there are crowds of Meereenese begging to be sold to the Qartheen. He explains that their lives as slaves in the Free Cities will be idyllic compared to their lives here. Dany reflects, and decides that any man or woman who chooses to sell themselves may do so, but forbids the sale of children. Missandei points out that the city usually took a tenth of the sale price, and Dany decides to do that too.
After the slaver leaves, Dany steels herself and orders Jorah and Barristan brought before her; she notes that Barristan looks proud while Jorah looks ashamed. She tells them that she’d hoped they would not survive the sewers of Meereen. Jorah says they won her the city; Dany thinks it is probably true, but only admits that they helped. She says they have saved her often, yet also betrayed her.
She demands of Barristan why he chose to follow Robert rather than Viserys, and Barristan confesses that it seemed to him that even as a child, Viserys was more like his father “the Mad King” than like Rhaegar. He further confesses that he’d wanted to watch Dany for a time before revealing himself, to ensure she was not also “tainted” with the Targaryens’ hereditary madness, but now is sure she is not, and pledges to be her faithful knight, or her servant in whatever capacity she chooses. Dany accepts his pledge and gives him a sword.
Then she turns to Jorah, and demands he explain himself as well. Instead of being humble, though, Jorah blusters. Dany is dismayed to learn that he had still been spying for Varys as late as their stay in Qarth. Barristan says that he was there when Robert declared Dany and her child by Drogo must die, and that Jorah must have been the one supposed to do it. Jorah protests that he stopped her from drinking the poisoned wine, but Dany returns that the assassination attempt would not have happened without his informing on her pregnancy.
Jorah says that she must forgive him, and Dany thinks he should have started by begging for forgiveness. She tells him she cannot forgive him. He protests that he protected her, killed for her, and that he loved her.
And there it was. Three treasons will you know. Once for blood and once for gold and once for love.
She tells him he must be out of Meereen by dawn or die. He tries to reach for her, and she slaps him away and turns her back on him, commanding herself not to weep. Belwas drags Jorah out. Daario offers to kill him anyway, but Dany tells him to leave Jorah be, and escapes to her chambers. She thinks that Daario was right, that she should either have kept Jorah or killed him. She is annoyed when Ser Barristan appears, but he tells her that he thought she might have questions for him, given how privy he was to her father’s counsels. She asks if her father was truly mad, but then decides she doesn’t want to hear the answer yet. He promises her to tell her about all the good in her family as well, particularly of Rhaegar and her grandfather Jaehaerys, and leaves.
She sleeps with Irri that night, and thinks about inviting Daario into her bed. She wakes near dawn and goes to look out on the city, wishing a silent farewell to her “old bear”, Jorah. Missandei joins her, and Dany tells her she is looking for a house with a red door. She begs Missandei never to betray her, and Missandei promises not to. They hold hands as the sun rises.
Later she summons her captains to the garden and tells them that she feels that she has been more khal than queen, bringing death and ruin rather than peace and justice. Missandei protests she has brought freedom, and Dany asks “Freedom to starve?”. She wonders how she is to rule the Seven Kingdoms when she cannot rule a single city. No one has an answer to that. She says she must give her children and her dragons time to grow and rest. She will not abandon Meereen the way she did Astapor.
“I will not march.”
“What will you do then, Khaleesi?” asked Rakharo.
“Stay,” she said. “Rule. And be a queen.”
Commentary
Oh, lordy.
Without diminishing in the slightest my feels for Dany—because I have many feels for her, she damn near broke my heart in this chapter—this whole endeavor screams to me of bad choices, which are inevitably going to come back to roost. Some of which already have, of course.
I have to hand it to Martin: he captures with flawless accuracy the monumental shitshow it must be to be in a position of power while possessing even the smallest amount of conscience or human decency.
And I know that wielding power more often involves choosing the least evil option from a veritable array of evils than it does getting to choose to do the right thing, but I am very dismayed at Dany’s decision to even partially reinstitute the slave trade. I totally see all the factors that led to it seeming like the best choice, even, but ugh, no, don’t go there, Dany! I hate to bring up the slippery slope argument, because it is a logical fallacy to ignore the possibility of a middle ground and I know it, but when it comes to slavery, even the middle ground is too extreme in my opinion.
But, we all know I am not completely rational when it comes to this particular subject, so for now I will just make a very sad and worried face at this development, and move on.
I’m not sure how I feel about her decision to stay put in Meereen. Because on the one hand, regrouping and recuperating is a good thing, and I guess it could be viewed as the only responsible thing to do after coming in there and smashing the place apart. And it would probably be good for Dany to get some actual ruling experience under her belt. On the other hand, inertia is an insidious thing, and Dany may regret losing the momentum she had if she ever wants to get around to actually invading Westeros. (Something which I’m still not sure if I actually want her to do, honestly, but still.)
Plus, this now means there’s a lot of repetition of the word “Meereen” in my future, and aaaaggggh. Worst city name in the whole series thus far, and she’s putting down roots there! Figures.
I wonder if she’s going to go overthrow this Butcher King dude? I mean, as long as she’s staying in the area, she might as well. I mean, maybe it would be better for her just to build her empire here and give Westeros a miss altogether.
Because seriously, Dany, it is a hot mess over there. Or, er, a rapidly-getting-colder mess, because Winter Is Coming, dontcha know, but you know what I mean! When it comes down to choosing between trying to repair a culture steeped in centuries of institutionalized slavery, and fighting off a horde of apocalyptic frozen zombies, I would choose….
Um. Is there an Option C? No? Crap.
(Speaking of which, is Winter coming everywhere, or just to the Seven Kingdoms? I mean, proper apocalypti tend to not be localized phenomenons, but the only evidence I think we’ve really seen outside of Westeros itself that Things Are Happening on that front is the reemergence of actual functional magic. And dragons. Which… okay, that’s probably good enough, but what are the other continents’ version of the Others, I wonder?)
She was Daenerys Stormborn, the Unburnt, khaleesi and queen, Mother of Dragons, slayer of warlocks, breaker of chains, and there was no one in the world that she could trust.
Except for two people, apparently, and I’m feeling really stupid right now because I feel like I ought to know who Dany was referring to there, and I am drawing a total blank, because the only people I can think of who Dany would have cause to trust completely are already dead. So, um, dunno. But I hope she finds them, I guess?
And then there’s Jorah, which, wow, way to shoot yourself in the foot there, bro. I’m not a fan of people needing to grovel as a general thing, but there are certain circumstances where you just fucking eat your crow and like it, dude, and this was unquestionably one of them. You basically gave Dany no choice but to reject your “apology,” you dumbass. Is it so important that your pride trump hers? Yeah, don’t answer that.
So, good riddance, though I rather agree with Daario that leaving a resentful and feeling-wronged Jorah out there as a free agent is probably not the smartest idea. But it seems, again, that wielding power is ironically a constant state of being forced to compromise. You know you’ve probably done as close to the right thing as possible when absolutely no one is happy with the results.
Also: so Jorah was all three of Dany’s prophesied betrayals: blood, gold, and love? Am I reading that right? Well… okay, then. I… guess it’s good we got them all out of the way at once? Huh. I thought that would be strung out quite a bit longer, honestly. I can’t decide if it’s good or bad that it wasn’t. Probably good. (Of course, Dany could be wrong in her interpretation, as well. Always a possibility!)
(I really should go back and look at that acid trip chapter again, because I’m pretty sure Dany’s mention of “a house with a red door” is also a reference to that whole thing, and I am a little confused. I think I thought at the time that that was a reference to Illyrio’s house—didn’t it have a red door?—but I guess I was wrong if Dany’s still looking for it. *scratches head*)
Meanwhile you have to be in a little bit of awe of good Ser Selmy, who is either a heartbreaking icon of sincerity, or an Olympic gold medalist in shrewd manipulation, because he did everything exactly right in this chapter to win back Dany’s approbation. Considering the setting, the smart bettor would go with the latter option, but I guess there’s no reason he can’t be both sincere and savvy.
Speaking of, Dany hit me right in the feels this chapter, as I said, in wondering who was going to betray her next, and how she straight-up begged Missandei to be her friend. That is one achingly lonely girl, y’all.
I just hope she keeps sleeping with Irri and doesn’t give in to the temptation to bed Daario, because NO. I have some consent issues with her relationship with Irri, but I am somewhat appeased by the fact that Irri was in fact the one who initiated the sex to begin with, and at least on the surface, she seems to be into it. And I do approve of the fact that Dany’s getting some desperately-needed tension relief and companionship out of it. Plus, at least Irri can (probably) be trusted not to take advantage of the situation, whereas Daario really, really cannot.
And… I’m betting this is goodbye to Dany for the rest of this book, since this is just about as obvious a cutting-off place for her particular story arc as can be imagined. ASOS for Dany was travel, and all the consequences that brought, so I’m wagering the next book for her will be dealing with all the consequences of stopping.
And I’m sure there’ll be aplenty of those.
And that’s our show, kids! Come on back next Thursday as we creep up on wrapping up Book 3! Cheers!
Leigh –
Great post, as always. I did have once thought on something that seemed to confuse you:
(I really should go back and look at that acid trip chapter again, because I’m pretty sure Dany’s mention of “a house with a red door” is also a reference to that whole thing, and I am a little confused. I think I thought at the time that that was a reference to Illyrio’s housedidn’t it have a red door?but I guess I was wrong if Dany’s still looking for it. *scratches head*)
IIRC, the house with the Red Door was the one she grew up in before she realized the world was sh*t (possibly Illyrio’s, as you said), and so in her memory, it represents peace, happiness, and simpler times. When she says she’s searching for a red door, it means she’s looking for those things. More of a figurative searching than a literal one.
Also, going back to read the acid trip chapter again – I assume you mean her visions in the House of the Undying? – is always a good idea. Having recently re-read the series on my own, I understood things in there so much more clearly, in terms of that some things are foreshadowing, some things are backshadowing, etc. Always a good idea to revisit that chapter after any major plot happenings in Dany’s storyline.
Love the ROIAF, thanks!
Matt
So many things I’d like to comment on, but can’t because spoilers arrgh.
Anyway, very insightful read of Dany’s situation. I think you’re right that Martin is doing an excellent job of showing the realities of trying to ethically wield power. It’s something that I see a lot of fans complain about, but I give him props for it. Can’t say any more at this point.
Also, I don’t read Dany’s speculation about the treasons as meaning Jorah fills all three of them. I think she’s just reciting the line from the prophecy to herself, and thinking that he fulfills one of them (I think it’s arguable which one, or even if he is one of the ones, but that’s the nature of ambiguous prophecies, and why they’re so fun to argue about, right?).
Also also, the red door hearkens back to the first book, when she’s recalling the place she stayed with Viserys in Braavos when she was much younger and they were still on the run. I think here she’s just using it as a symbol of how she’s yearning for what felt like a safe place from childhood.
It’s always been my interpretation that Jorah is in fact none of Dany’s three betrayals and she’s just wildly misinterpreting things. Keep in mind that Jorah was a spy to begin with and then became a sincere Dany supporter. So really what he did was the exact opposite of the betrayal. She also seems to attribute him to the betrayal for love because he said that he loves her – which is odd because in that case it’d be a betrayal despite love.
“House with the red door” = the house where Dany and Viserys spent the happiest years of their childhood, in Braavos. It’s mentioned a bunch of times in the first book. They were eventually kicked out when their protector, Ser Willem Darry, died.
Two men Dany can trust –> that’s no one in particular, just referring to how Aegon the Conqueror had his two sisters, and the saying “the dragon has three heads.”
I was so disappointed when Dany decided to stay in Slaver’s Bay. Not as much as a reader who detests the word “Meereen” though. (rool over to read text) I was giggling in the spoiler thread about your commentary hating on the name of the city, knowing that Dany won’t be leaving there for a long while…
The house with the red door was her house in Braaovs as a child, and was the closest thing she ever had to a home- it symbolizes her longing for a home, though she wants to return to Westeros instead.
Jorah was such a dumbass in this chapter, it’s amazing.
I read the 3 betrayals differently. Dany was told (pretty convincingly at the House of the Undying) that she would know 3 betrayals. She is sure that the one for blood was Mirri Maz Duur, but she knows there will be one for gold and one for love- in my mind, Jorah does not count for either of those; he had hoped to go home, so spied on her, but it’s possible the gold he received could count, I just don’t think he’s one of the 3 prophecized betrayers.
The thing about 2 men who she can trust refers to 2 other riders for her dragons. There are 2 men out there who can/will ride her dragons and help her claim/rule Westeros, if she can find them. I kinda doubt they’re in Slaver’s Bay…
i miss the days where you did multiple chapters a week =)
Not comment on the crucifications of the slavers? That’s quite a contentious topic in the fandom.
Too bad Daenerys (roll over to read text) doesn’t get another POV until A Dance With Dragons.
I was also very frustrated with her descision to stop in what sounds like an exotic third-world hell-hole. I was anxious for her to get back to the game in Westerous!
My interpretation is that Jorah betrayed her by being in love with her. She thought it was all friends/people-with-similar-aims in this thing and off Jorah goes falling in love with her, betraying (to her) the purity of the thing. (I should also note that I think Dany definitely has feelings about Jorah, but not the beast with two backs kind)
I have never been able to understand why fandom distrusts Daario so much.
I mean, no he’s not the most morally upright of people, but to me his interest in Dany always seemed genuine, and as young and naive as she can be, she’s also got a pretty good head for who she can and cannot trust(as evidenced by this chapter), so I always trusted Dany on this, and if she likes him, I like him.
At least, I’m willing to withhold judgement on him until he actually does something questionable to earn Dany’s distrust.
Also, passive aggressive comments about Leigh’s reading pace is trolling, if that’s the only thing you have to say.
And telling Leigh HOW LONG it will be before a character gets another POV chapter IS SPOILING!
The ASoIaF world is arranged a bit odd. Westeros is a vertical continent, with the southern part extending into the tropics. Most of the eastern lands are on a big horizontal continent that’s mostly in the tropics, so they don’t see nearly as bad a Winter as the Westlands.
So its mostly a Westerosi thing. Not even going to touch on the multi-year Winter aspect–that’s almost purely A Wizard Did It stuff.
Oh yeah, that prophecy. One of the more confusing ones.
I’m not even sure whether the treasons it refers to are betrayals done to her; they might as well be betrayals committed by Dany herself, or committed by somebody switching to her side.
Ambiguity is a really great thing in prophecy, is it not? A lesson Melisandre should take to heart as well.
Chapter 71-Daenerys:As I recall, we were about to head into some sewers.
Hmm, it seems Dany is already on top of the pyramid, so events proceeded while we were reading elsewhere. Hopefully we’ll get a flashback as Dany drinks her honeyed wine and snacks on the dog sausage (hot dog!).
Purple robe with silver sash, crown and silver high heels. Um, ok.
Crucifying the slavers to respond for their killing children seem pretty in line to me in the world Dany is in. These are nasty people. It seems, though, that Dany hasn’t really thought her whole free the slaves campaign out. People are reverting to form once she is past and she hasn’t put any real system of governance in place.
She has forgiven Ser Barristan and that seems good. I trust him in this case also. She has banished Ser Jorah and I don’t think that is the right move here. I also am veryleery about saying that Jorah is the betrayal for love–something doesn’t feel right there.
“Stay and be a queen.” That seems like a plan. The opening of the chapter hints at what could go wrong. Dany could end up drinking sweetened wine and becoming decadent by staying too comfortable. On the other hand, taking a bit of a breather is a good idea. Some balance between the two would be best.
This was an interesting writing choice by GRRM. The taking of the city and the journey through the sewers could have been a number of epic chapters in their own right. But, what he is telling in the Dany chapters is Dany’s story not just the story of battles.
@@@@@ 7, in what ways is it contentious? This is genuine curiousity so I hope that didn’t sound like a challenge. I’m a relative newb and I’m about 30% of the way through Dance so I don’t visit boards much. Anyway, to me it seemed in keeping with Dany’s actions in the past, especially considering what happened to all the children on the road to the city, so I didn’t have a particularly strong reaction to it. Is it contentious in terms of potential political fallout, or from a moral standpoint?
Leigh
so Jorah was all [i]three of Dany’s prophesied betrayals: blood, gold, and love? Am I reading that right?[/i]
Well, jury is still out on that but personally I still think the prophecy really refers to 3 individual treasons and not a ménage à treasons (pardon my french).
@16 – I can speak for myself only, but I find it problematic that Dany asked slavers to give her 163 (or whatever is the number) people to crucify. I am at the loss as to why she trusted them to give her guilty.
Winter is a universal concept; it’s just that the Slaver’s Bay is much closer to the equator so it doesn’t get hit by it as badly. Minor comments in the next two books show that seasonal changes are occuring in Essos as they are in Westeros; just in very different forms.
And yeah most people agree that the prophecy is 3 individual treasons, to match the way that Dany will have 3 lovers and light 3 fires. Or whatever. I’m sketchy on that one.
@19: For reference:
“Child of three… three heads has the dragon… three fires you must light: one for life and one for death and one to love… three mounts you must ride: one to bed and one to dread and one to love… three treasons will you know: once for blood and once for gold and once for love…”
Enjoyable, if painful chapter. To paraphrase Mel Brooks, it’s tough to be the Queen.
Really nice job of illustrating to Dany the consequences of leadership. She conquers Astapor to free the slaves, leaves it behind, and arguably an even worse monster takes over running the City. She appears to take this lesson to heart in electing to stay in Meereen, at least for now. Hope this decision won’t lead to different, painful results.
Really like the Barristan v. Jorah distinction. First apologizes deeply and is retained. Other keeps trying to justify the indefensible and is painfully dumped. Yet another potential turning point that would have ended differently is someone (in this case, Jorah) made different decisions.
SH at 15 – really thoughtful final paragraph. Well done.
Amen to that. As the last of the Targaryens, even if she were to successfully take over Westeros and win the Iron Throne, since she’s incapable of leaving any heirs, as soon as she dies, it’s right back to “let’s play the game of thrones.” (And who gets the dragons when she’s gone?) Sure, maybe she could establish some kind of representational government during her reign (do we have any examples of that in this world?), but with devious sh*ts like Cersei and Petyr running around, that probably wouldn’t last long after Dany’s eventual demise.
@22 – not clear that she’s incapable of bearing heirs. That’s just one interpretation of MMD’s statement/prophecy back at the end of AGOT.
Even then, no doubt she could adopt someone as heir.
The House with the Red Door is very briefly mentioned in the first book; it refers to the place where she lived when she was a very young child, right after she and Viserys fled Westeros, which was in her childhood, the one place she felt safe and happy. I think it’s in the first Daenerys chapter.
Good Chapter.
I just wanted to write thank you for doing this re-read. It makes getting through the week easier.
Have a good weekend.
@21: Yeah, Jorah may have been the one to save her from the wineseller-assassin, but his information helped create that situation in the first place, and he only tries to shift blame and gloss it over by brining up his later deeds. Considering that it nearly got her and her son killed, I’d say that she has pretty good reason to be angry.
Not to mention that he also kept the truth about her father and the Targaryen line from her, which I could see leading to some unpleasant surprises if Westeros decided it didn’t want to risk another Aerys, useful Other-melting dragons or no.
have to agree with @14, the more you turn the prophesies over, the more you start to realize parts of them may not actually refer to dany. ex: the “treason for love” could mean dany is betrayed by someone acting for the love of a third party. or the three mounts, i’m thinking “to dread” and “to love” are not men, but animals.
it’s highly unlikely that dany will recognize anything until after it has occurred. subjects of prophesies never interpret them properly. that’s what drives the prophecy to fruition.
@27 sofrina
the more you turn the prophesies over, the more you start to realize parts of them may not actually refer to dany. ex: the “treason for love” could mean dany is betrayed by someone acting for the love of a third party.
Yeah, my personal pet theory is that the “treason for love” might actually be Daario betraying the mercenary captains for her love. The prophecy never explicitly states that she must be the one being betrayed, unless my English skills fail me which, granted, is always a possibility.
This is one of those times where I want to send an ASoIaF character on vacation to Tortall, where — among other things — abolition of slavery has long-lasting positive effects on a nation. (Leigh, if you haven’t read Tamora Pierce’s books, you really really should. Feministic fantasy at its best).
One thing I think would be great is if you go back to read the acid trip chapter (perhaps once you’re finished book 3), post a bonus commentary on your revamped thoughts about it :)
(Sorry if someone already suggested this, I’m at work and didn’t want to wade through all the comments)
Good job as always Leigh, glad you were able to post this week.
This is one of the chapters where I can really see GRRM’s original vision of “Let’s leave the kids alone for 5 years to grow up and learn.” But that fell apart for every other viewpoint.
Re: Winter
Hasn’t it been said that Dorne is not really affected by the Winter? So if they are not, no wonder the slave cities really are not bothered by it. Guess that’s one reason why the Starks motto is “Winter is Coming” and everyone else has a more personal or vain motto. The North gets “Summer Snows.” Some southerners probably think snow is a myth.
@28, Randalator: It’s not your English failing. It’s everyone just trying to figure out what the hell GRRM means from his prophecies.
And the lovely trope known as “Subject of Prophecy has to Misinterpret Everything until after it all Happens.”
@6, Charles: Really? Guess you were trying to be cute. But that was Fail.
1) Leigh is probably still dealing with the family issues that caused last week to be a miss. Give her some respect and space.
2) When a chapter is really long, she’s tended to make it a 1 chapter post. Since she sees this as the end of Dany’s POV “for now”, it makes sense to leave it as a stand-alone post.
Great post!
Concerning the Winter issue… The farthest north place in Essos is Braavos, and its about as far north as the Riverlands. All of the North is farther north than anything on the continent Dany’s been on. The farthest north place she’s been, Vaes Dothrak, is about the same Latitude as the Twins or Riverrun. And where she’s at is about as south as Dorne, and somewhere probably near the equator of this world. So, in a regular winter, these people would notice about as much as sub-Saharan Africa would.
The North has their motto because there is literally nothing in the world as far north as them. They’re the only people who are really affected by normal winters. Once the apocalyptic winter comes, however….
This chapter pretty much restored my faith in Martin and solidified my issues with Daenerys. I was rolling my eyes at her marching around waving her hands and ending oppression until this one reveals the fate of her “most cliched good & wise council ever”. Seriously, a scholar, a priest and a healer is such adolescent bullshit fantasy that I was kind of relieved to see how Martin blasted that trope by having an ambitious SOB take over.
The characters I feel bad for are the regular folks who are going to get smashed up in this girl’s parade of disaster, here and in Westeros. I mean, what else could possibly have happened in a city where you took their soliders, after ordering the soldiers to kill their police force, leaving a city with like, zero guards or troops? Even without a coup, someone else would have finished the job. And now she’s ruling Meereen as her practice city? It’s a great big case of “who gave you the right and what makes you better than Robert Baratheon, who at least was a native and had the best legit claim once your family was out of the picture?” And how is the experience of running a completely alien culture supposed to help her when and if she does take the throne in Westeros?
And even stipulating that her impulses are generally benign, how is ruling by impulse, and ordering mass crucifixitions any better than Joffrey? The point with Joffrey was not that he was being mean to nice people, but that he was being mean, period. Being mean to assholes only puts you a short step to being mean to anyone you define as an asshole. WoT implies that’s pretty much where the Seanchan Empire got started – they conquered a land full of sneaky, evil, untrustworthy people who practiced slavery and all sorts of other miserable institutions, and justified the things they did by the caliber of people they were doing them to. You go from “we are from a good guy place of relative equality and are horrified by the injustices we have found” to “we are the only good guys, therefore, anything that helps us win is cool” to “worship the Emperor(ess) (s)he is the symbol of all that is good and right, you are not worthy to look at the Imperial eyeballs.” Seanchan looks a lot like Meereen will after 1000 years of a Targaryen dynasty. But at least the trains will run on time.
@33 – you’ve described exactly it may well be a good idea for Dany to stay and go through Queen School before going to Westeros.
Sometimes when you free slaves you get Aruba or Antigua, sometimes you get Haiti.
@35 Not an entirely fair comparison, as Haiti was not benevolently freed and then left nicely alone to its own devices — they had to revolt, and after that revolt were forced to pay a huge yearly fine to their erstwhile enslavers until 1947 (by which time the infrastructure was so weak and impoverished nothing like a healthy society was going to come out of it, and it wa ripe for exploitation by the Duvaliers). The continuous outside interference in this case can’t be compared to anything Dany did.
Yes, I took that way too seriously. :-)
Sorry RobM, but it isn’t queen school. Queen School involves lessons and good examples. Calling what Daenerys plans to do in Meereen “queen school” is like calling amateur surgery on a live person “medical school” prior to doing the “real” surgery to a second patient. Oh, and your practice patient is an old man, while your eventual “real patient” is a teenage girl. That’s not enough experience, they are way too different, oh, and you can’t “practice” with people’s lives like that! Generals don’t start out at the top with a “practice army” that they will use up and misuse in battle, before taking over a whole new army claiming things are cool now, because they’ve learned from their mistakes. CEOs don’t get a practice corporation to run in place of business school before moving on to the company they really intend to head. And the reason for all of these is the same reason why she should not be experimenting with Meereen – it’s real people’s lives and livelihoods at stake!
@@@@@ 37. Darkdoug, and what are her alternatives? The option of selling her spoils of war and living a rich and quiet life in Quarth is for many reasons not really an option – people will want to marry her for the claim she has, will want her dragons and some might even already want revenge. Other than that, she has a huge army which do not know (and are probably uncapable of learning) anything beside war. She cannot just let the troops go home, because there is no home they can go to. She has a lot of her supporers, who are hungry. Her dragons will soon eat more meat then money can buy. By this point she is condemned to being a leader even if she decided to forget the fact that she is the rightfull ruler of Westeros!
And her options are now: take a test-drive city to learn how to rule or go to Westeros. If she takes the first option, sure she will have cultural differences later on, but at least she will get the logistics straight. And the reason “you don’t experiment on people” is just wrong. You don’t experiment on people if you have the option to give them to a trained medic. She tried to do it with Astrapor, giving the city to the council, and just look like it turned out! I’d rather be operated by a novice doctor then be left alone with mortal internall wounds.
Irri is just a loyal slave/servant who decided to “help” her master when the latter was in “need”. Also Dany kept imagining Dasri9, which means she’s hetero-, not bi-.